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Nov 14, 2019, 2:44 pm
#1
Liface
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 17
Why is personalized in-flight drink and snack service still ubiqitous?
Drink and snack carts are:
- Physically disruptive: they block a plurality of passengers from accessing a bathroom at all times and they frequently hit passengers sitting in aisle seats
- Noisy: hearing flight attendants say the same thing to every passenger is tiring, especially if you're trying to sleep
- Distracting: if a cart is coming by, you can't concentrate on what you're doing because you know you're going to get interrupted to ask if you want something
- Wasteful: I always get a weird look every time I ask for a "water, no napkin"
All of this persists for what seems like way too long on short-haul flights.
Shouldn't we just be able to pre-opt-in to drink and snack service via the inflight entertainment system and have the goods delivered only to those that want them? That seems like it would solve all of the above issues.
I know that Southwest does the pickup trays, and United does them on <1 hour flights, are there any airlines that are innovating in this department?
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Nov 14, 2019, 4:29 pm
#2
jrl767
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Originally Posted by Liface
... Shouldn't we just be able to pre-opt-in to drink and snack service via the inflight entertainment system and have the goods delivered only to those that want them? That seems like it would solve all of the above issues ...
ask VX how well that worked ... oh, wait, they aren't around any more ...
milski and Zeeb like this.
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Nov 14, 2019, 6:00 pm
#3
paperwastage
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,385
I'm a fan with what ANA does with meal service, wished more airlines did that
https://www.ana.co.jp/en/us/servicei.../guide/y/meal/
Their meal/drinks menu are available online. The same PDF is printed out and passed around during meal service, so you don't keep hearing "chicken or fish" every 20s or wonder how the chicken is prepared
Downside is that routes have same two meals for the month. But you know that in advance, and can choose to special order or bring something onboard
Other airlines typically have just one or two menu onboard (so the FA know what's being served) but no pic of good descriptions
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Nov 14, 2019, 8:29 pm
#4
Liface
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 17
Originally Posted by jrl767
ask VX how well that worked ... oh, wait, they aren't around any more ...
Correlation != causation
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Nov 14, 2019, 11:16 pm
#5
chrisl137
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Join Date: Nov 2013
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Among other reasons, there are many aircraft without seatback IFE systems and many airlines that have a mix of aircraft with and without them. There's also a move away from them since they add a lot of mass and use power, and nearly every passenger now is carrying at least one wifi capable screen that's probably higher quality than the IFE, particularly if the seatback IFE is more than a year or so old. For an airline to do it your proposed way in seatback IFE equipped aircraft and old-style on non-seatback equipped aircraft would add to complications with service consistency and they'd probably get a lot more complaints.
On AS you can pre-order some of the meal items and pay for them on the aircraft (and change your mind - you can pre-order and then not buy the item and they'll just sell it to someone else), but they still go around with the cart.
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Nov 15, 2019, 1:26 am
#6
cbn42
Moderator: Manufactured Spending
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,580
Originally Posted by Liface
Drink and snack carts are:
- Physically disruptive: they block a plurality of passengers from accessing a bathroom at all times and they frequently hit passengers sitting in aisle seats
- Noisy: hearing flight attendants say the same thing to every passenger is tiring, especially if you're trying to sleep
- Distracting: if a cart is coming by, you can't concentrate on what you're doing because you know you're going to get interrupted to ask if you want something
- Wasteful: I always get a weird look every time I ask for a "water, no napkin"
With the exception of the cost of the napkins, these do not affect the airline. They only affect the comfort of the passengers, which, as I'm sure you've noticed, is not very high on the an airline's list of concerns.
Setting up a system to order drinks and snacks via IFE is probably more trouble than it's worth, and then there will be people who won't know how to use it, etc. Virgin America had such a system, but many people still placed orders verbally by flagging down a crew member.
Remember that by law, there have to be a certain number of crew members on the plane, so having them do a beverage service doesn't cost the airline anything in labor.
milski, strickerj, 84fiero and 2 others like this.
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Nov 15, 2019, 11:33 am
#7
Duke787
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: DL PM, MR Titanium/LTP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,130
Originally Posted by paperwastage
I'm a fan with what ANA does with meal service, wished more airlines did that
https://www.ana.co.jp/en/us/servicei.../guide/y/meal/
Their meal/drinks menu are available online. The same PDF is printed out and passed around during meal service, so you don't keep hearing "chicken or fish" every 20s or wonder how the chicken is prepared
Downside is that routes have same two meals for the month. But you know that in advance, and can choose to special order or bring something onboard
Other airlines typically have just one or two menu onboard (so the FA know what's being served) but no pic of good descriptions
DL passes out a paper menu on international and TCONs in Y to speed the process. And every US airline at least has the drink and food menu in the airline magazine and sometimes on an additional standalone insert in the backseat pocket -- it's just no one bothers to read it until the cart gets to them which slows the process down because they have to fish out the menu and stare at it.
I would imagine a good deal of it is pure efficiency. It's not efficient for an FA to continually walk back to the galley to get a round of drinks. It's far more efficient to have everything right in front of them to accommodate the request on the spot and be able to provide them at the same time.
Plus you eliminate randomness in drink orders that cause bigger deviations in service time -- if you follow the same process every time you can have a pretty accurate idea of how long it takes to serve F&B on a full plane by plane type.
If you allow personalized ordering, the randomness of passengers on a given flight could cause dramatic deviations in service time because the passengers are unlikely to order in an efficient manner (aka all at the same time) -- they are instead likely to be staggered which could result in slower service times.
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Nov 15, 2019, 3:36 pm
#8
lhrsfo
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On Norwegian they use the OPs preferred system. It seems to work well.
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Nov 16, 2019, 8:07 am
#9
Super Mario
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Global Entry
Posts: 2,877
Then when it goes away, there are complaints that the airlines keep cutting service. There legitimately are people who will pay $100+ more for their flight because Spirit/Frontier do not offer free refreshments. These people may not admit or even understand the psychology of their decisions, but they do it. It is not going to go away because of the "value" to some people. People will LOSE THEIR MINDS when a service stops giving away free liquids.
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Nov 17, 2019, 11:40 am
#10
GetSetJetSet
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So now we have posters that complain that some airlines still provide some limited service?
ryw, Kevin AA, travelmad478 and 6 others like this.
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Nov 17, 2019, 1:04 pm
#11
Toshbaf
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: PDX
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Posts: 9,038
Originally Posted by chrisl137
Among other reasons, there are many aircraft without seatback IFE systems and many airlines that have a mix of aircraft with and without them. There's also a move away from them since they add a lot of mass and use power, and nearly every passenger now is carrying at least one wifi capable screen that's probably higher quality than the IFE, particularly if the seatback IFE is more than a year or so oldt.
That is American Airlines wAAy of thinking. No, I want my IFE.
After sad experiences with short smartphone battery life and longevity, I will not watch a film on a phone. I have a tablet but it is not always compatible. For example, Amazon Fire cannot easily (or at all) get Google Play store in order to get Gogo. iPad's can.
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Nov 17, 2019, 1:47 pm
#12
Catbert10
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Austin, TX
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Posts: 1,625
FAs on domestic USA flights aren't going to run back and forth from the galley serving snacks and beverages when someone randomly makes an order. At best you could pre-order, but they would still bring the orders down the aisle in a cart. Lots of people wouldn't have ordered, so they would just make an order then and there. So it would end up being pretty much like service is today, except maybe they wouldn't run out of snack boxes.
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Nov 17, 2019, 6:56 pm
#13
Liface
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 17
Originally Posted by GetSetJetSet
So now we have posters that complain that some airlines still provide some limited service?
Yes.
Flying is a method to get from one place to another. In 2019, it is a commodity available to everyone, and no more of a special experience than a cross-country bus trip.
The first airline to promise to leave me alone inflight will get my business. Everyone else can go to the frillier carriers.
Last edited by Liface; Nov 17, 2019 at 7:03 pm
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Nov 18, 2019, 6:21 am
#14
84fiero
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
Originally Posted by GetSetJetSet
So now we have posters that complain that some airlines still provide some limited service?
I think this might be a first for FT!
Originally Posted by Liface
Yes.
Flying is a method to get from one place to another. In 2019, it is a commodity available to everyone, and no more of a special experience than a cross-country bus trip.
The first airline to promise to leave me alone inflight will get my business. Everyone else can go to the frillier carriers.
You may be the sole customer base for that hypothetical airline. 99% of folks are glad to have what little service remains - which could hardly be called frills lol! If you can't tolerate hearing an FA ask for drink orders and are upset over napkins, you may want to save up your money and book private charter flights for a personalized experienced.
nancypants, writerguyfl, GrayAnderson and 1 others like this.
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Nov 18, 2019, 8:08 am
#15
beachmouse
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: VPS
Programs: IHG Diamond, Delta PM, Hilton Gold, Accor Gold, Marriott Silver
Posts: 7,272
Drink service in Y for sub-hour flights has been gone from a lot of Delta routes for years now.
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